A frugal life is an easy life!

In my family's experience, replacing our old G rated boiler with a new A rated boiler to "save money" turned out to be false.
Our energy bills, in metered units used, increased, albeit by a small number.

Any so called "money saving" vanished when the price of the boiler and installation, we discovered later, would never be recovered. The new boiler would never pay for itself, over the boiler's lifetime.
You can read the original post here "New boiler energy saving myths exposed" (Scroll down for the comments)

A recent comment on there left by Jeff, was a tad harsh, labelling my post as "dangerously inaccurate" and "you don't understand your bill, how energy works, central heating systems, how companies work, or basic mathematics. You're comments are dangerously inaccurate, and you're doing a great disservice to anyone else who reads this and is as misinformed as you"

So should people be replacing or have replaced their old G rated boilers?

The Energy Saving Trust (EST) stated during the government funded warmfront campaign, savings of "up to £300"
Jeff posts "... EST's estimate of £300 savings, this is based the fact that the average UK gas heating bill is approximately £1000 per year"
Well Jeff (and others) it's all well and good saying this now, but nowhere on their website were these estimated figures being based upon the "average gas heating bill being approx £1000 per year" published at the time they were running the warmfront scheme, nor are they posted upon there now that I can see?

Today, there is no reference of this claim on their website. All that is posted is this...
"These are estimated figures based on installing a new A-rated condensing boiler and full set of heating controls in a gas-heated, semi-detached gas heated home with three bedrooms"

Today's version of the energy saving trust's website, showing how they reach their calculations can be seen here http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Energy-Saving-Trust/Our-calculations (UPDATE: Their calculations page has been removed and now directs you to a contact web page)
The energy saving trust state, "The efficiencies shown are SEDBUK 2009 efficiencies, the current standard for boiler comparison."
But on SEDBUK's own website (Found here http://www.boilers.org.uk/pages/sap2009.htm) it states clearly, "...the results are not themselves a satisfactory guide to efficiency achieved under installed conditions. Neither can the results be used to compare one boiler with another, as different test conditions are applied according to boiler type and fuel used"

Just to remind you, the energy saving trust website states... "The efficiencies shown are SEDBUK 2009 efficiencies, the current standard for boiler comparison" SEDBUK's own website says their findings/results CANNOT be used for boiler comparison!
So who is being inaccurate Jeff?
Sounds like the energy saving trust to me Jeff....

There is nothing to support your statement of what the EST's calculations are based upon.
Is this not being dangerously inaccurate, as you say I am?
If your statement is true then where is it posted by the EST or SEDBUK?
Why isn't it widely published and easily accessible to people that are looking to cut their energy bills via their heating system?

Jeff claims that I do not know how central heating systems work.
I put it to Jeff (and others) that the energy saving trust do not know how central heating systems work.

While at the time and to a great extent today, consumer groups and the energy saving trust make vague claims of the benefits of A rated boilers over G rated back boilers, would be better, what not a single one of these so called "experts" have picked up on, is that the old back boilers (G rated or better) heat hot water at the same time as heating the home.
A simple grasp of reality shows that a home heating water using the same energy that also heats the home HAS to be more beneficial to the user.
Millions of back boilers were removed under the warmfront scheme that the energy saving trust ran for the government at the time, yet at no point in their annual reports, summaries, or findings is this shown to have been taken into account. Why not I wonder?

The energy saving trust go even further.
Since they stopped running the warmfront scheme for those in power and revamped their own website, they now advocate that "...A regular boiler is actually more efficient than a combi at producing hot water in the first place" Just for clarity, "a regular boiler" is most commonly a back boiler with a hot water tank - the very same type of central heating systems they were advocating removal of under the warmfront scheme!

Jeff continues... "As for your assertion that your maintenance plan eats into your savings, no one's making you purchase one of these. It's a choice as to whether or not you think you'll have the funds available if your boiler breaks down. And it's an entirely independent choice and has nothing to do with whether or not you have an old G- boiler or a new A- one. So get that out of your head."
Lifetime of new A rated boilers - according to the energy saving trust warmfront figures - shows they last around 12 years.
Are people to seriously not bother servicing their boilers? Or to pay out of their pocket each year to have it serviced?

Then there are repair costs on top of this.
Let's not forget, combi and condensing boilers have many more parts that can go wrong than a conventional back boiler.
A neighbour of mine has had to fork out over £80 three times in 4 years because of early winter boiler breakdowns of her trusty A rated new boiler.
Monthly maintenance contracts or repair costs as and when the boiler breaks down, it matters not, it will eat into any predicted "savings" to the owner.
I know it's an entirely independant choice and I never said it mattered that's it's an A rated or G rated boiler... some form of repair/maintenance costs have to be factored in to the "savings" as they are unavoidable.

Back to Jeff... "As for your BG friend who told you that new boilers use the same gas, but produce less CO2. Did that really make sense to you?"
As I explained, I have long since given up on being able to believe anything from the big 6.
Less emissions while using same gas is just one in a long line of claims from energy companies.
Not my BG friend, but a time served engineer whom tested meter, pipework and appliances in an official capacity.
The fact remains that with one less adult in the home, more energy saving measures fitted than any of the big 6 energy company's own "energy efficiency expert departments" could recommend, less appliances using the new boiler, my metered units used INCREASED.

 ... and finally, "A common mistake people who install energy efficiency measures make is to take advantage of the extra comfort those measures provide. In other words, a previously cold home had it's occupants wearing lots of clothes in the winter to stay warm. But once the new measures were put in place, they cranked up the heat and shed the extra layers. Well, sorry to say, that's going to have an impact on your energy usage"
Of course it is, but we heat our home without using any gas now, yet metered units used INCREASED.
We wear MORE warm clothing than when we had the old back boiler, we no longer have a gas fire, we have one less adult in the home.

I'll leave you with a twitter reply from none other than British Gas.
They asked what their customers would like to see in the future, I replied, "Energy saving measures being fitted and bills FALLING"

Here's what they said, https://twitter.com/Frugal_ways/status/362562467093676033 "Energy efficiency will reduce the cost of future bill increases" - they will not cut or save you money off your energy bills.
Many many people are finding that fitting a new boiler does not cut their bills, worse still, at the same time a new boiler cost is never recovered over the lifetime of the boiler in "estimated bill savings" - in our case, believing all the hype has cost us in the pocket.

If the cost of buying, fitting and running a new boiler is not recovered in REAL cuts to energy bills (Not even under "estimated" figures is this the case) then that leaves the individual OUT OF POCKET!
Simple mathematics!

Has this happened to anyone else?